That Atheist Blog

Every story has AT LEAST 2 sides sweetie. Compare and contrast: lee Strobel's 'The Case for the Real Jesus" with the material you have there.

Strobel was also an unbeliever...

God does not act or think in human ways. When I was little I used to wonder if God is really up there Why don't he get off his high seat and spank me when ever I did wrong. Now I understand. Payday is going to be someday.

If Jesus isn't real then what is there to debate about. God isn't real then how can there be atheists to deny God? Why fight against Jesus someone who loves us enough to shed his blood for the sins of humanity and suffered with us and on our behalf in order to reconcile us to our heavenly Father. Please remember there is also Satan Jesus' enemy if we are against Jesus we are for SATAN and he wants to destroy us. He is also real, if he's not then how do you explain the host of evils in the world. Satan is the first agent of deception. SIN IS THE ONLY THING THAT SEPARATES US FROM THE LOVE OF GOD not that God stops loving us but we stop loving God and stop loving each other. Don't believe in SIN either? Why do people feel guilty when they sin against God or hurt someone? Or why do people get angry when someone tells us that a lifestyle we are living offends God and hurts themselves and other people? Because we don't want to feel sorry for offending Jesus who is a victim of our sins is makes us depressed to think about how we hurt Him, But we forget he forgave us. SIN IS THE SECOND AGENT OF DECEPTION, and we deceive ourselves that we can do whatever we want so long as we don't get caught. SELF IS THE THIRD AGENT OF DECEPTION. Don't u see that we need Jesus to be real in our lives? to overcome OURSELVESS, SIN, AND THE DEVIL?

@Meleisa - "The Case for the Real Jesus" is a little lop-sided in my humble opinion. Yes, Strobel goes in as a supposed non-believer. BUT He says at the beginning of the book that he's going to take a hard, skeptical look at the subject. He has certainly reviewed the material, but when he presents the case it is extraordinarily one-sided - it is largely the case of white, male, middle class Christians. they're all a particular kind of Christian - evangelical.

Not only does he ignore all nonbelievers, he also ignores all non-evangelical types of Christianity. No Catholics, no Episcopalians, no one who might be termed a "moderate Christian". Also, no women.

If one interviews evangelical Christians, of course they are going to confirm!

I love reading so many views and accounts about Jesus. The facts here are not that conclusive and leave me still believing that Jesus was at the very least a real man, and teacher. There are many scholars that have studied Jesus and come up with many facts to prove his existence. Jesus did do many good things for woman and the human condition in his time. Paul was the person who took away woman rights not Jesus. The parables he told still hold true and are better than some of the self help books on the market today. If believing in Jesus makes you a better human being then I say what is the harm, just like Buda, Mohammad, etc. If we take all of our great historic teachers away this world would be worse off than it already is. We just need to apply the words of wisdom to our own lives.

@Pat Excellent comment and points made!

I would never think less of anyone for believing in Jesus, Mohammad, Buddha or anything they consider a direction to project their faith. I just don't happen to subscribe to the "Jesus was a real person" myth. But that's just *my* line of thought.

As a muslim, I do believe in Jesus but not He as a Christian. Why don't some of you try at the very least, read the Holy Qur'an. We call him by the name Isa a.s. We never worship, nor acknowledged him as the Son of God. If God is human-like, have sons, daughters, a family, then it is not God. No one should ever worship those who are just about the same as we are, a fragile and futile human.

@w!E @bdull@h - Obviously, you know where I stand on this issue but actually I am lucky enough to have a Muslim sister and I have studied the Qur'an. You made a good point. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Judas on Judas, "Who would have thought, you are 'Judas' too."... thereby in all in all, only Judas have remained... lol

@Solomon - you bet. ;)

Food for thought; Jesus mentioned in Jewish writings. The case for and against the historical figure can be made, when studying The Talmud; a living and vital document in Judaic law. here are some observations, pro and con.
"Some scholars argue that the Talmud provides no evidence of Jesus as a historical individual, instead they view the references as referring to Jesus as the messiah of Christianity.[39] Arguments against the Talmudic references being evidence of a historical individual include chronological inconsistencies, for example the accounts in the Tosefta and Talmud take place in different historical periods. Also, the tradition first seen in the writings of Celsus can not be regarded as a reliable reference to the historical Jesus. Furthermore the Bible indicates that Jesus was crucified and not hanged from a tree, while making no mention of a Roman soldier named Panthera.[citation needed]

Other scholars, such as Joseph Klausner (1922) and Bernhard Pick (1887), believed that the Talmud gives insight into Jesus as a historical individual.[40] Some of these researchers contend that the Talmud's importance and credibility as an early source lies in the fact that it gives the "opposition view" to Jesus, and they have used the Talmud to draw the conclusions about the historical Jesus, such as:[41]

There was a religious man named Jesus.
His mother was Miriam and she was married to a carpenter.
Miriam was accused of conceiving out of wedlock and it was believed that her betrothed was not the father of Jesus.
Jesus went to Egypt
Jesus had a number of disciples
Jesus performed miraculous signs, which were perceived by many as sorcery.
As Jesus became more widely known he was charged with practicing magic and leading Israel astray.
All deserted him and none came to his defense.
On the eve of Passover, Jesus was executed."
Ultimate recommendation, follow your heart but don't leave your head behind.

Just a bit more, this from a Jewish source. You mentioned that in your studies, you found no mention of Jesus in the Midrash; Here then is an interesting section I discovered;

"Our Rabbis taught, 'A person should always push away the sinner with the left (generally, the weaker) hand, but hold him close with the right (generally, the stronger) hand. Not like Yehoshua ben Perachiah who pushed away his student with both hands." (Masechet Sotah 47a)

Comment: It is necessary to push away the "sinner," to some extent; that is, to let him know that he has gone off the path, but never to reject him entirely, as that would violate the entire spirit of the Jewish Religion's approach to Sin and the Acceptance of Repentance.

Rabbi Yehoshua ben Perachia was the teacher of Jesus and the Midrash describes the following fateful series of events which separated the latter from his Jewish origins.
"What was the incident involving Yehoshua ben Perachia? When Yanai the King killed out most of the Sages, two of the small number of survivors were Rabbi Shimon ben Shetach and Rabbi Yehoshua ben Perachia. Shimon was protected by his sister, the Queen; Yehoshua ben Perachia fled to Alexandria in Egypt and established a Yeshiva there.

When peace was established between Yanai and the surviving Sages, Shimon ben Shetach sent for Yehoshua to return. He sent the following message, 'From Yerushalayim, the Holy City, to you, Alexandra of Egypt, my Sister! My husband is hidden in your precincts, while I am sitting abandoned.' When he received this message, Rabbi Yehoshua ben Perachia said, 'There must be peace now.'

On his return, he and his students stayed at a certain inn, run by a woman, where he was shown great honor. Afterwards, he remarked, 'Wasn't that a nice innkeeper!' His student, Jesus, responded by saying, 'but master, her eyes are crooked!'

Rabbi Yehoshua ben Perachia said, 'Wicked person! Is this what you find important?!' And he had him excommunicated. Each day, Jesus would come before his teacher, and ask to be forgiven. But his Repentance was not accepted.

On the day that Rabbi Yehoshua finally decided to accept Jesus' repentance, when the latter came to ask forgiveness for what he had decided would be the final time, his master was praying. When he lifted his hand to cover his eyes, Jesus interpreted that gesture as yet another rejection, gave up, left, and went astray.

When later Rabbi Yehoshua said to him, 'Return!' Jesus responded, 'Have you not taught us the principle that for someone who leads others astray, there is no possibility of Teshuvah!' (Masechet Sotah 47a)

Comment: Thus, the origin of Christianity is attributed by the Talmud to the failure of one of the greatest Sages of the Jewish People to accept the Repentance of his student, when he should have.
"Anyone who leads the People towards righteousness, will not sin; and someone who leads the People towards sin will not be allowed to do Teshuvah. (repentance)"

@ivor - I'll have to check on that to see if it was authenticated. SOOooo many of those writings have proven to be forgeries.

To anyone who wanted to consider whether or not Jesus' was a myth or an historical figure, would first need to take into consideration the following.

The Romans had a reputation for not valuing other people's lives and they were known as dangerous opponents to anyone who got in their way or contradicted what they said. A non biblical example of this could perhaps be Cleopatra's demise and struggle with the Roman Empire in Egypt.

In logic there is no chance that someone would of travelled throughout the Middle East, proclaiming God and telling people to stop following the law (as in Government law) and to follow God's law, which is to keep the ten commandments and to become a follower of Jesus as many Christians still do today.

Why would anyone put themselves in a situation knowing the penalty would be death.

@Nicolas I am not sure what you're saying here.

@Jeff - you are the first person to bring up this exact point and it's a good one! It goes hand in hand that if that were actually occurring but some small, insane thread - you'd think there would exist at least one written record by or of Jesus during his supposed life time. But no, there isn't.

@Nicolas - I think we would be much farther advanced as a people if we didn't have religion.

first of all, you know jesus,by the holy spirit,if you know him its this way, if you have never felt the spirit of god you will never know him. i find it strange,that theres so many people who never received the holy spirit, the only reason they do not believe the christ. the power and love that we receive from christ is as real as it gets. there are millions of liveing and dead who know,by the holy spirit,that it is real,for with out new eyes new heart the conversion is real. you could write till dooms day and never with books or learning know jesus, unless you call upon him by the holy spirit.it is so sad so many people do not know gods will,because they do not feel the power of his meaning. there is no place to hide from him, its not fear, its love, love put in your heart,the conversion is complete when love of him and kindness of his person, is real. may jesus have mercy on you, who can not believe or receive thespirit.

it is allso said the more you protest ,anything, cast the first stone, for gangs of people casting stones, if you blame anyone first blame yourself, theres plenty of blame, god only promised man bread,not to destroy the earth with water again,that if he loves you know one can stand against you, that the soul of man is gods,that he will remember you amoung the many,and save you from harm. god says that, anyone laying down his life to save others,has a place forever. he does not say to blow up yourself for others. god does not favor war ,but says it will allways be with man. we are seeing now right\\\

@wayne - good comments all but I personally don't believe in God/Jesus et al. I could say, "May The Flying Spaghetti Monster have mercy on you who cannot believe or receive the spirit" and it would have as much meaning for you as what you've written to me.

JM - Yes, I've read it. Don't you think it's a little violent? And scientifically unbelievable if you are reading it literally.

look jesus is a propghet of God and he's definitley not the son of God or the holy spirit or anything of this
he's a prophet of God and he has miracles
and if you want more information about who really is jesus please visit my blog and watch the video you'll find out so many things that you never though about and it will make you think out side the box
http://posts.fanbox.com/rf244

@Saba -There is no evidence those miracles occurred. The gospels were all written by non-eye witnesses 40-100 years after the time they supposedly happened and there were many historians at the time who could have recorded these events. Without relying on faith those events are true, it's impossible to say that the Bible or Qur'an is accurate through hard facts.

whatever you say or do today will not accomplish what jesus has done and thousands have recieved him no matter what people have said against him they still believe him and respond to him , master and lord as the call him my dear dont go other way if the river is upside dont try going other way its useless , i believe in jesus ....hhhhaaaaaaaahhhhaahhha i love him all the days of m y life

love you with his love as he taught

Sachin Gaikwad or you can look at it rationally and see things from a different perspective. Love Jesus if it helps you be a better person - I just don't happen to need that in my life. I'm good without God.

I thought a native Ohioian would have an open mind! JoLynn... I have studyed all religions and
feel that most have some good. Nothing is ever perfect and certainly not man. If someone gets
a good feeling out of something, then who cares!

@Paul - I am not a native Ohioian. I do have an open mind, that's why things like logic flow in freely. I've studied many religions as well and I'm not taking anything away from anyone. Like I commented to Sachin above - if believing in a higher power is what he needs to feel good or be good - that's great by me - I just don't want to be involved in it.

you may be good at somethings, someone or sometime in someways but God is good always this is a major difference between we human beings we are finite , hallow, narrow, etc but still he chose to love us and gave himself this makes me even a bigger fan of him

@Sachin - that's great. I disagree with that as a fact for my own personal beliefs but if it works for you - fantastic!

This I hold close..... I'd rather die a believer to find out that there is no God, than died a non-believer to find out that He is actually really exist. For I've been told enough of the consequences of my choice.

@Louis - a lot of people believe it's wiser to use some method of Pascal's Wager.

The problem is they are so many lies told about Jesus and is existence, first of all you have to know which Jesus you are talking about, because so many names in different languages when translate mean Jesus, One need to have there own experience about this Jesus/God issue, ask all to read about what happen at Azusa street.

@Al are you talking about the LA pentecostal revival?

----- sigh ------

I keep coming across your posts, which I suppose is what this type of blogging site is all about. They do catch my attention, I must admit and so achieve your aim, be provocative and be read !! Trouble is (and I've said this before on one of your posts ) I see little originality of thought or much response from you (beyond facile one-liners) as it'd seem you're a bit of a copy/paste person...

Anyway, you have that right naturally.

FWIW

Quot
" None of these points are meant to stand on their own, but collectively they provide a very strong argument against the story of Jesus Christ being based on a real person. "
End quot

Have you actually comprehended this structurally?

Surely, if even one of these 'points' falls, then collectively they are all worthy of closer scrutiny as possibly being fallacious ?

Maybe this would be one issue, viz: is Jesus | Yeshua 'real' , that one wouldn't wish to be wrong or misleading to others about ?

@RomanorBiter - ---sigh ----- back at cha.

I appreciate your comment and I mainly share things (articles, videos...) I find interesting. I did like this guy's article but I love The Thinking Atheist and recently passed on Christopher Hitchens even more.
You ask if I have comprehended this structurally?
Of course, no religion can withstand scrutiny because it relies on faith, which requires no thinking logically to make it work.
I don't believe I am misleading anyone, simply asking people to look at another side and not rely on blind faith, I'm not here to change anyone, just sharing what I find interesting, which as you pointed out, I have that right naturally. ;p

My problem with all this is that there is evidence missing on both sides. If He didn't exist, who wrote this book and I can tell you that the writer is not from here because of all the knowledge for the era. The book was so twisted around on purpose. We don't even have the men smart enough today to put something like that together. Or God wrote it, or the devil because it is a perfect doctrine. They are sure trying to pull people away from it all. And yes I agree that whether or not He was here, the teachings are great. He reveals many secrets that take people years to understand. Who was he? Why was the bible never wrong on any of it's prophecy so far? What other book can even compare to those results. His name is not Jesus anyway. Yeshuah! I study reverse speech and I don't believe that the name of my savior would say profanities in reverse. God is into details.

Hi Bobbie, thanks for your comment. I appreciate your thoughts!
Personally I think the Bible is filled with terrible ideas. Slavery = bad idea. Subservient women = bad idea. Infanticide, patricide. The Bible is a violent Bronze age book written in a time with the average life spam was around 26-years of age.

You really intrigue me with your comment " I can tell you that the writer is not from here because of all the knowledge for the era." - Where do you think the
writer(s) came from?

nice post...

Most folks who do not like the Christian religion do not like what they regard as encumbering rules. If they are bigger and tougher, they want to be able to use that brawn to have their own way. If they are somewhat smarter, what good is it if they can't exploit other people? Jesus' appearance leveled the playing field. The elite of the time did not like that. The elite of our time do not like it.

Also, such people want to believe in the Theory of Evolution. They consider something like the human brain or eye, the trillions of heavenly bodies-- stars, planets-- and want us to believe such things just evolved. The earth spins at exactly 24 hours, which can be divided into 60 min & 60 sec. It travels around its star, our sun, once ever y 365 days, creating the year. That creates the phenomen of time. It is a God-made thing.

God does not need time. He can thus watch everything and everybody simoultaneously. I live my life as if there really is a God, Jesus came here to save us in the Hereafter, and the Bible is our personal message from our Creator. If, when all is said and done, I die and there is no God or hereafter, then perhaps I cheated my self out of some fun (but immoral & sinful things). But, if I live my life not believing in God and thus not caring about the sacrifice of Jesus for my salvation, and find out that there really IS God, and I then am sent to hell, I would really be sorry!

We have from the time we reach the "age of reason" until death separates us from this world, to GET IT. Where we stand on God, Jesus and the Bible will determine whether we spend eternity in heaven or HELL. And... it is permanent! No suicide or repentence then!

Thanks for your thoughts fh_ubetcha! What you're describing sounds like Pascal's Wager. I do feel the need to point out that Evolution is no longer a theory and hasn't been in a long time. It is proven through fossil records and our own DNA. Science has even been able to trace where the mutation between our ape ancestor occurred, the time in history it occurred and where that mutation is on our modern DNA strand.

As far as God needing time or not, how do you know? The answer is you don't. Other than "faith" - which the very definition is the suspension of logical thinking, there is no proof of God. For the rest of it, I have to pretty much dismiss it because anything presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Yeshua is who the research should be about. Some facts are accurate though and the Bible was tampered with. It doesn't mean that there is no truth in it. But it's not complete enough to find the truth. They used hemp oil to anoint people back then. Today it illegal so how can one find the truth without all the pieces to the puzzle? It takes a lot of research to find the truth.

nice post

IF SOMEONE NEED MORE INFORMATION I RECOMENDING THE BOOK " THE ESSENCE OF CHRISTIANITY" BY Ludwig Andreas Feuerbach TESIS ABOUT THIS BOOK IS THAT CRISTIAMISM IS PURE ANTROPOLOGISM.
PEOPLE CAN CHANGE THE WAY OF THIS WORLD BUT SOMETIMES PEOPLE DOESN{T BELIEVE IN THEIR POWER THAT IS INSEDE OF EACH ONE AND GIVE THIS POWER TO UNREAL THINGS, THAT ARE ABSTRACT BECAUSE MEN DO NOT WANT TO RECOGNIZE THE POWER THAT THEY HAVE IN THEIR HANDS

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.John 3:16

"That which can be presented without evidence, may be dismissed without evidence". C. Hitchens.